Moves publisher Moonah Ellison recently sat down with singer-songwriter River Sage (they/them) to discuss their musical journey and what’s to come.
So let’s talk a little bit about your journey. Tell me where are you right now?
I’m in college [Muhlenberg College, Allentown, PA]. I actually have a gig tonight. Singing a few songs for my album. It’s called the Arts Marathon. It’s from 6PM-6AM. I have a 15-minute slot, and it’s to raise money to stop domestic violence in the Lehigh Valley.
Let’s take some steps back into your journey. How did you get to a place in your life where you were able to define who you wanted to be? And how you wanted to be seen and represented as an individual? The reason I’d like to talk about it is because in five years, in ten years time, you’re going to be talking about this journey differently. How do you get to a place where you were able to feel this is your identity?
I think that writing the music that I just released helped a lot. The album has songs that are from four years ago, and it has songs that are from three months ago. I think a lot of my journey can come like it came from my music. I explored, I guess the journey of growing up as a girl and what that meant and how you’re treated and how you’re taught to accept the way you’re treated.
And I think from my past experiences, I kind of toughened up a bit. I don’t want to be treated like this anymore. I think that was kind of my pushing point to really solidify my identity and who I was and my sense of self, because I realized that if I didn’t have that, I’d always base it off of the way other people were treating me, and the way I was letting other people treat me was not how I wanted to be represented in my character.
What was it that clicked that made you feel this is my moment and this is who I want to be?
I had a lot of time to think during Covid, as we all did. I spent a lot of time when I was really young, always trying to be better than the boys I was around. I wasn’t pretty like the other girls. So I was going to be smarter than them, and I was going to be smarter than the boys, so they couldn’t bring me down. I think it got really tiring for me. And I started to feel out of place because I didn’t want to have to keep fighting. And I wouldn’t consider my identity and escape by any means. I think that I just kind of realized I identified outside of the constraints of what girlhood felt to me.
I think that women are incredibly strong and wonderful, but I think that this feeling of competition that was weighing on me led me to explore what other identities meant. I didn’t know non-binary people growing up. The after school programs I did had someone working there, and I think that was like my first encounter with they/them pronouns. I was like, that’s really cool. I find that really interesting. And I think all the time I had to think and reflect what I was alone in my room, kind of led me to realize that I felt freer. I identify outside the binaries that are so structured in society.
What was your family’s response? How did you feel they were going to react?
I had a lot of friends who are also a part of the LGBTQ plus community. I was not worried about my friends. Thankfully, I was able to confide in them. I think coming out to my parents was difficult because I thought they’d receive it better than they did. They were never mean to me. By any means, but I think they wanted to protect me. When I said that I wanted to change my identity in a way that obviously would be public, you know, like when you’re younger and you identify as queer. My parents, I guess, perceived it to be less of a threat to my safety because it’s not something I have to tell everyone. Like changing my name, and using different pronouns.
I think it made them scared that other people would make fun of me or hurt me. And that’s kind of where their response came from when they said we’ll think about it. Like we’ll think about letting you identify this way. My friends continued to call me River like they made the switch immediately. My parents said we’re not going to control what other people call you. But they took about two weeks to come around. And to really think about it and realize that it was what’s best for me because this was also the rise of social media in young kids.
It is tough for parents who are conditioned and cultured with the background of where we all come from, and having to make those shifts. But I think today’s world and society and what you guys have access to everywhere that is so openly available. It creates different conversations… I’d love now to go into the music side. You play many instruments. Where is all this coming from? Is there a musical background in the family somewhere? Or is it something that just happened?
I took singing lessons from a very, very young age. I think I was like 4 or 5. I wrote little songs then, about friendship, nothing amazing. But I didn’t start anything until I was about 9 or 10. It was dramatic then to take these lessons and it was actually my dad’s piano from his childhood. He did play and his siblings played a little bit, but nothing really further than that. I started playing piano first, and then I started taking guitar lessons. I enjoy the guitar a lot more and it’s what I write most of my songs on. So it definitely did start with singing, and I never was like, I want to be a pop star, but I never wanted to write music. I never wanted to do all of these things. But I found a lot of joy in it after I got more comfortable with composing music, like the fact that I could play it and create something with my hands. It actually made creating lyrics really cathartic.
Is that just something you’re self-taught [song writing]? Is that something that you’re now pursuing aggressively?
I was mainly songwriting wise, self-taught. I went to a performing arts high school, so we did have a songwriting class, in freshman year. And I think it totally helped because the whole idea was how to create a successful song. So I created a song. It’s on the album Can’t Commit with, like a successful melody and a successful structure. It was catchy. People were telling me that stuck in their heads. I think that I took a lot of that knowledge with me in terms of writing the lyrics, the words, a lot of it. I always loved writing and storytelling. I wrote poetry, I think a lot of it came from raw emotion and real events. All of my songs are deeply, deeply personal to me. I took college level writing classes in high school. I’m taking them now in college. I think it’s definitely helped because as I improve as a writer, I’ve noticed that I’ve improved as a lyricist, if that makes sense.
Are you in a relationship right now? Because there are some really heavy emotional words in some of your songs.
I am not, I think that the songs of the album kind of tell you, but I’m not. So interestingly enough, I haven’t been in a relationship in four years. There are a lot of people that I’ve liked, and it’s kind of like this. Okay, we’re dating, we’re going somewhere. I’m a very all-in person with my friendships and with other connections. My friends are my whole world.
And that’s kind of it translates into my romantic life, where it’s like, I want to give my time and energy to people. And there’s always been on their end a fear of commitment. And so they’ve just walked all over me again and again because I let them.
My music. I feel things deeply. So, I’ve been in a lot of, like, situations.
There’s a generationally how things are shifting. Your space is so fragile. You know, with the young people today don’t know who to believe. What’s real, what are the truths? Where am I going? Am I taking the right path? The uncertainties are so here now. Do you sense and feel a lot of this? I mean, I don’t envy the journey that young people have today.
Yeah, I think everyone has a lot of fear of emotional intimacy. Especially in my generation, I think it’s scary to open up, especially with online culture and everything. A lot of people tell me now, I can’t tell you things over text because I don’t want it to get skewed or people will call their friends manipulative for responding honestly when someone asks, how are you?
Like there’s this growing culture of, I don’t owe anyone anything. And people start applying that to their most intimate relationships, and people just become bad friends.
You’ve got an amazing future ahead of you with your music. You’ve got social platforms where a lot of this is going to get played out. How are you finding yourself holding on to what’s right and also, being careful without, without sounding cliche.
I think all my music is inherently so vulnerable. There are parts of me out there, there are stories out, They’re just a little too personal to be able to deny who they’re about. So it’s an incredibly vulnerable field I’m already in. I think all of my care really goes into, like, the other parts of me to make sure that I’m expressing myself in a way that feels true to me whenever I speak out about things.
I’m very careful with my wording because I think that intent versus impact is a really real thing. You have to be careful to say exactly what you mean. So it is stressful and it’s a lot, but I honestly just have to take a minute and think about it, sleep on it, make sure that anything I’m putting out feels right.
So I’m going to throw out some we call like, it’s sort of like a lightning round. I’m kicking off with my first question, famous music artists that you love right now.
Leith Ross. Lizzy McAlpine.
Instagram or X?
Instagram.
Tell me the country you would like to see yourself perform in the next five years?
Iceland
The best arena in the world you’d like to see yourself performing in the world.
Honestly, I’m going to have to go with the MetLife Stadium, it’s gigantic.
Who would like to see yourself perform with?
I adore Sabrina Carpenter, but I might have to say Lizzy McAlpine again because I just, I love her so much.
Would you wear, pumps or would you wear heels? Okay, cool. What are you going to wear? Red lipstick or go dark.
Dark, red is tough with pale skin. It’s hit or miss.
Who is the hottie on your database right now?
Chappell Roan all the way.
Guilty pleasure.
Oh, I kind of am really into yodeling.
Reach out to River Sage on Instagram, as well as listen to their music on Spotify, Apple Music, and Amazon Music.